Ep 29: Is the USA still number one in financial advice? Featuring Bekithemba Mafulela

Episode 29 of Rethink Financial Advice, co-hosted by Derek Notman, CFP® (Founder & CEO, Couplr AI) and H. Adam Holt, CFP® (Founder & CEO, Asset-Map). (34:34)

Episode 29 of Rethink Financial Advice, co-hosted by Derek Notman, CFP® (Founder & CEO, Couplr AI) and H. Adam Holt, CFP® (Founder & CEO, Asset-Map). Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or Acast.

Episode Summary

Bekithemba Mafulela of Momentum joins Adam Holt and Derek Notman to question an assumption most American advisors never examine, that the United States leads the world in how financial advice is delivered. The hosts note that advice-led practice in the US has largely been reserved for the wealthiest households, while the great majority of the distribution market still runs on product sales. Other jurisdictions took a different path. Australia and the United Kingdom imposed planning and disclosure requirements that forced advice to come first, at a regulatory cost that pushed some practitioners out of the market entirely. Mafulela describes the South African picture, including a large population with income but few assets, which reframes who can be served profitably. The concrete illustration is subscription arithmetic, where 150 households at a modest monthly fee sustains a practice with no assets under management at all.

What this episode covers

• Whether the United States still leads in how advice is delivered, and where it does not
• How Australian and UK requirements forced planning to come before product
• Serving households that have income but few assets, and why the model differs
• Subscription arithmetic for a practice built without assets under management
• Why advice being location-independent cuts both ways for an advisor

Full Transcript

Machine-generated transcript of this episode.

Welcome to Rethink, the financial advisor podcast. My name is Adam Holtz. And this is Derek Notman. We are your hosts, both veteran advisors and FinTech CEOs who challenge the status quo, question everything and have fun doing it. Hear honest commentary on the challenges facing advisors today. And be part of a community where we can all rethink the profession. Now on to our episode. S. still number one in financial advice? Huh, now that’s a new one. Why would you be asking that question if the United States is still number one? I think a lot of us consumers and advisors take for granted that the United States tends to lead the financial advice and services industry.

But are we still really number one? It’s interesting because I can only answer from my own experience, which has been like you, speaking in different jurisdictions. And a lot of people are there, especially in Asia and in Africa and in Europe. And even some of the speaking I’ve done in South America, they’re there to hear what we’re doing. S. is always the leader and everybody is following. But it may not be the case in certain aspects. I think you’re right. That’s been the status quo for a long time. And I think at least from what we would maybe refer to as like a conceptual or strategy, or even just like an ideal perspective, I think we might be losing our number one spot.

Now, I don’t know about you, but I haven’t heard of any stats, maybe we’re just not aware, that puts the advice market specifically in a tier for where you’re getting the most advice. But we do know from our conversations and talking and reading that the model of delivering advice or leading with advice, certainly not new here in the States, but it has been reserved for the wealthiest of Americans that the sales marketplace, which is 80, 90% of the entire financial distribution marketplace is still predominant. In other words, people selling individual products. That’s not so true in other jurisdictions. In fact, I know that talking to friends from Australia, even five, six years ago, they were required to do a massive underwriting of what’s going on in the client’s lives and provide these hundred page fiduciary reports just in order to get to the place where they can offer to manage their assets.

They had to lead with planning, they had to lead with advice and it was onerous. In other words, the disclosures were regulatory onerous and pushed a lot of people on the market. I think that also happened in the UK. It has, it’s happened in a number of places. Obviously some of this is regulation driven, but heck, it’s even happening in here in the States, but it feels like we’re lagging. And I think that we had a really good chat with somebody in South Africa. And this is what spurred this whole question that I’ve asked you, because they’re doing things a little differently or a lot differently down there.

And I think it’s worth chatting more about. Yeah, I know, I love it. I was really excited when I heard who you had interviewed because I think all too often in America, we get to, I said America, in the United States, America, we get inundated with the fact that we’re in the leader position. We don’t tend to hear voices outside, even though they’re clamoring for our technology, our process, maybe even our investment strategy, but they’re innovating and they’re coming up with new strategies. And it might be indicating a shift that’s happening globally that everybody here in the United States should pay attention to, because it’s often from the outside of our house that we get disruption.

Innovation rarely happens on the inside when you’re in the leader position, because things are great. I don’t have to fix it. So I’m curious, what did you hear from Becky? And who is Becky, by the way? Yeah, so Becky, short for Becky Temba, Mafulela, really awesome guy that I actually met completely through LinkedIn. So side note, power of LinkedIn is pretty darn amazing, folks. Becky is a CFA and a CFP holder. And he currently is the head of what is referred to as retailization and employee benefits distribution at Momentum, is in South Africa company down there. Momentum would be like equivalent of the large insurance broker dealer or wire house type of companies here.

And typically they have manufactured a lot of product and they were in the whole product sales game and have been for a very long time. They’re a huge player down there. One of the biggest actually in South Africa, many millions of customers, over I believe 11,000 advisors in their network. They’re pretty big. And they’re doing something totally different. And Becky is heading it up. They are really taking this whole leading with advice concept that you and I talk about on a regular basis to a whole nother level, a corporate level, which I found just fascinating. Awesome, that’s great. No, so, and I’m really curious to hear what he has to say.

So for those of you listening, pay attention to what Becky’s saying. Derek, there’s a great interview here. Let’s take the next 10 minutes and then we’ll come back together and we’ll challenge what we’ve heard. Given your background as an analyst, as a planner, you have your CFP designation and your diverse background in the financial services industry. What is your current perspective, opinion of the financial advice market today? So I think the stock market is quite the case. If you look at it in a straight level, got close to about a hundred thousand people that call themselves some sort of a financial advisor or some sort of a salesperson or representing a company or doing independent advice, et cetera.

So it’s quite broad. And there’s still quite a lot of part of the industry that is product-led, quite a bit of that is advisor-led as well. And there’s different segments in the industry from holistic financial advisors to advisors that are focusing on specific segments to the market, maybe if it’s investments or employee benefits or insurance or short term. So it’s a very broad industry. And there’s lots of different nuances and segments in the industry. Sounds very similar. What’s happening here in North America is that we have this product-centric industry or what has been a product-centric industry that’s shifting towards a more advice-led, planning mentality in the way that we do business.

So would you say that’s accurate? Or that’s the same thing that’s happening in South Africa as you were seeing this momentum? No pun intended. We are seeing this transition happen now in South Africa as well? No, absolutely. I think it’s the same trend as well. It’s been driven by regulation. It’s been driven by changing climate and just, you know, lots of dynamics that are pushing that change in that respect. So absolutely, it’s a dynamic industry. Really is a fascinating change, but it’s neat to know that literally on the other side of the world, the same things are happening for a number of reasons. We have regulatory changes that are happening here as well.

The consumer is expecting a different experience. And it’s interesting to see that as culturally diverse and different that South Africa is from the States, it’s all actually very similar as well in what’s happening. So I appreciate your perspective there. What would you say is the missing opportunity or even an upcoming challenge for advisors in the South African market that they should be aware of? Yeah, so I think pre-COVID technology was not such a big, but then if you combine all the technological changes and also clients also started to adopt technology quite a bit in terms of how they access financial services, how they access products, and then how they actually engage in the struggle.

And then on top of that, all the regulatory changes that have been happening in the industry now, significantly reducing sort of commission in certain segments of the markets, and also just the expectations from clients now for them to get a better outcome from engaging with the financial advisor. I think all of those things are pointing to advisors needing to future-proof their value proposition to be able to stay relevant and be able to actually offer a value proposition that they can charge for clients. So I think it’s a number of dynamics that actually create opportunities for advisors that stay out of the care, but also presents significant challenges and risks as well to advisors that actually don’t move some of the changes that we see in the market.

I would agree that it’s this opportunity in disguise almost. And pre-COVID, I think a lot of us, as Aaron Klein even said in one of our old podcast episodes is that we have this kind of complacency risk. We just got comfortable doing things the way that we did, but the challenge with that is that, especially now that we’re post-COVID, you’re almost, we’re getting there, that if you aren’t doing what the clients want and expect from a technology perspective, then you do run the risk of really falling behind everybody else that is adopting a digital first environment. So I say that we have the same challenges here in the States as well on that front.

So along those lines then, Becky, for our advisors listening to this in South Africa, what action steps would you recommend that they take to really get ahead of this and thrive in this digital world that we live in? Yeah, no, great question, Derek. So I think when technology was like a topic, digital advice, robot advice and all of those things, initially they presented themselves as a potential threat to financial advisors. But I think what is increasingly becoming clear now is that they’re actually enabling to better advise and supporting advisors to run a much more efficient practice, a much more cost effective practice and take away some of the work that is actually quite time consuming and expensive for advisors in allowing advisors to do more of that human touch that support their clients in their journey to success.

So what we’re doing at Momentum is to assist that by providing a program where they can let some of these skills, they can let some of the best practice not just in South Africa, but globally in terms of our advisors adopting to this, changes in technology, changes in value proposition, et cetera. So we’re running a series of programs, coaching to practice management, to supporting advisors that want to be more technically completed by starting towards a qualification financial planning advisor all the way to CHP. So all of these programs in our minds support advisors to be able to stay ahead of this capability to adopt and thrive in a potentially disruptive environment.

It sounds like what you’re saying for advisors listening to this is that at least a couple of main takeaways would be upskill. And when we say upskill, not your digital capabilities like embracing new technology, learning to work with these technologies and increasing the efficiency of your business, that’s part of it, but also upskilling to get that CFP credential at some point. So now you are leading more with advice than product. Those would be, at least those are the two main takeaways I hear what you’re saying. And what I love about what you guys are doing at Momentum is it’s really refreshing. You guys are leading the pack in South Africa.

And I would even say maybe even more from a global scale, which I’ve found Adam and I talked to a lot of different folks in different financial institutions, tech companies, et cetera. And it’s really refreshing to see how forward thinking you guys are. And you’re just taking this by the horns, so to speak, driving it. And I think the advisors listening to this, pay attention to what Becky is doing at Momentum, because things are pretty cool and it’s really helping empower them to be better in this digital person. So Becky, Adam and I like to get a little edgy with this podcast and maybe say some things or challenge things just so we can rethink.

What do you think needs to be heard? Do you have any specific things that you just wanted to put out there and say, hey, you gotta do this, you gotta hear this, you gotta think about this? We welcome some of the edgier comments, so go ahead. No, no, great, eh? Like when we think about authentic transformation, Gary, we’ve seen a transition in the industry that is almost transformational, if I can use that word. In the sense that the industry needs to move from product-generated rising, but also from an exclusive industry to a much more inclusive industry. In the sense that there’s a reason why Solantra gets one of the highest engineering issues in the world.

So the inequalities in Solantra are quite significant. Primarily, especially, rather, when you look at asset ownership. Some of the research that we’ve done shows that the top 10% of clients in South Africa virtually control almost all the assets in the country, roughly about 95%. So the middle class in South Africa is about, is asset poor is the bottom 50% that actually has got no income at all. But then when you look at income now, that middle class has got about the same amount of income with the top 10%. So what that shows now is that in the United South Africa, there’s a significant almost preference to the AUM model.

So there’s nothing wrong with the AUM model. We don’t shoot it down anymore during the end of the day. Within the day, an advisor needs to get paid. Whether you’re getting paid through commissions or AUM or fee for advice, the bottom line is you need to get paid somehow. But then if you look at the opportunity now that is really a benefit, is the opportunity for the advisors that take a much more client-centric approach and a way to charge clients that don’t have assets, but they’ve got potential, they’ve got significant income, it will grow their assets with the advisors over time. And I think that’s the opportunity that a lot of advisors still need to pay attention to.

Because the average advisor who’s doing well is most likely to just to focus on the top 10% of clients that have got assets. It’s not wrong with that, but it’s missing a significant opportunity and market that is available for advisors that actually see the opportunity in that sort of growing middle class. And in total, that is where middle class is very dangerous, right, from a gender, from a race, from an age, from a geography, social class, all of these things. Because that top 10% is already in this as well. Because we see this historical, you know, legacies of world, et cetera, in South Africa that still persist even to this day.

So if that kind of crisis is controversial, the idea is that these opportunities out there that are not obvious to what advisors that have to focus on in South Africa. Thank you for sharing that, Becky. You’re right. And Adam and I can maybe a little bit more to that history of South Africa, because it has created some real issues with the wealth issue there. It’s fascinating that so much of the wealth is maintained by so little of a population in South Africa. But I think you’re right. Advisors, pay attention to this. There’s a huge opportunity to help a lot of people be more financially successful.

They may be not just be AUM, maybe focus on other ways to help people because there’s a lot of people that need our help. At the end of the day, it’s our job, right? That’s our job to help folks. I appreciate you saying that they, that advisors need to get paid because we don’t work for free. So I think that’s gonna be appreciated by our audience. I feel like I thought that was really interesting. And I certainly learned a bunch from Becky there, certainly about the dynamics of the population. What did you think about the demographics there that was driving? It’s really forcing the rethink of the AUM model.

It really is. It’s a really interesting situation. So South Africa has 11 official languages, right? And even more dialects on top of that. And the white population, if that’s what we wanna call it, is only about 25% of the entire country. So it is a very different thing, but because of apartheid and a lot of history there, and we don’t need to get too political here, but there are a lot of systemic issues that have to be worked out and will take some time. And he alludes to that with this like non-distribution of wealth. If I heard that right, 10% of the population controls 90% of the asset wealth.

This is really interesting because when you think of the corollary to at least the United States, we do know that there’s a very large separation between those that have wealth and those that don’t. In fact, I actually had the opportunity to speak of Vanguard just yesterday. And the conversation came up about how do we empower the next generations to actually want to get advice when they don’t have assets because they’re in the growing, emerging, they’ve got income, clearly. We know we’re paying people more, given the wage growth, but they don’t have assets because they’re living for today a bit as well. There’s all lots of reasons, right?

How do you engage them into advice when the typical model says, I can’t afford to work with you because I won’t make any money with asset management? And I think it’s forcing us, if we were to actually look at how this is playing out in South Africa or even the UK or Australia, given the demographics, what can we learn from that in our space with respect to compensation models? Well, we have to get away from AUM only or financial plan only or commission only, right? As he even says, there’s multiple ways we can do this, but if we want to give access to people that don’t have assets, then well, we have to come up with a model that doesn’t charge based on assets, right?

And make it accessible. But how do you do that? I mean, when most of the financial advisors we know that charge AUM and work with the generally upper middle class high net worth, they’re managing a hundred clients maybe. They’re really, let’s be honest, looking after 15 to 20 clients that are a bulk of their revenue. We all know that 80-20 rule from Pareto. And from an asset management standpoint, it’s really the high net worth clients actually subsidize the services of let’s say the lower end clients. And so it’s an interesting challenge when a financial advisor is making a couple of hundred thousand dollars a year or more, doesn’t it feel like it could be a real disruption to compensation if I start taking on clients on a flat fee basis or hourly rate, right?

I run into scarcity issues. Well, maybe, but let’s look at that. If we have similarities in the United States like there are in South Africa, and as he talks about, there’s this massive demographic in South Africa that doesn’t have assets, but has the income to pay for advice. Well, if we looked at it in the United States, for example, what if you’re an advisor that wants to build a practice that only charges subscription model, right? And do the simple math. 150 clients, that’s all you’re gonna have are 150 households, however you wanna do it. Charge each of them 150 bucks a month for an ongoing financial planning, all the things that come with that.

That’s 270 grand a year in revenue. Not bad for a one to maybe two person advisor shop. That’s pretty decent income. And you don’t have to manage a single asset to do it. And even like, I remember Michael Kitz has posted on this or talked about this, that the AUM market is actually getting crowded now. There’s less and less AUM to go around. So there has to be other places for advisors to go. Telling you, I mean, if we have a massive amount of people in the United States that can afford from an income perspective to get advice and we can make it affordable at 150 bucks a month or whatever, I don’t know.

It sounds like a pretty good business to me. I mean, I don’t know too many advisors that would complain about making 270 grand a year doing just financial planning advice and no AUM. That’s pretty awesome. Okay, but then that’s fine, but let me be controversial. All right. Good, you do it. Most of the financial advisors I knew, and I was, if you were charging 1% on a million bucks, gross dealer concession is still 10 grand, which you keep some portion of that. Let’s be, I’m trying to use simple math. If you’re in a broker dealer situation. Okay, fine. That’s fair. If you’re charging 1%, if you’re charging 50 basis points, it’s five grand a year.

That’s still the equivalent of over $400 a month. And I don’t know if the expectation will change. Think about it this way. When I pay my Netflix subscription, where it’s like what, 12 bucks or something a month, my family is asking me, Hey, did we watch Netflix? Should we cancel it? I’m like, really? You’re going to cancel it this month because we didn’t watch it. I think consumers have gotten more and more fickle on expectations that if I’m paying monthly, I better get value monthly. Very much like a technology tool. We’re seeing people cancel or suspend their subscriptions when they’re monthly and come back to them because they can.

And I wonder whether the disruption itself, if we align it, and I’m just challenging it because I have the luxury to do so because I’m not personally charging anymore. So I can look at it from the outside and say, is that legit? Is it going to hold up? And it’s no question, Derek, that all of us in the financial services world are going to have to deliver more value for the same compensation. The question is, are we going to create more inclusivity versus exclusivity, as he said, by moving towards a professional services fee or subscription fee? And I happen to think the answer is, we are going to not have a choice.

I think it’s going to push the market. I agree 100%. But it’s not replacing AUM. It’s we’re adding to the menu of options, right? And who knows? Maybe you have a flat fee client for 10 years. You help them build wealth. All of a sudden they change jobs and now they need you to help manage a couple hundred grand in a retirement account. Why can’t you just flip over from one comp model to another? Or a combination, right? I think that’s what I want to- Or a combination, right? I mean, there’s a lot of people that want advice. And they see the account minimums. Oh, I don’t have that?

Oh, well, I guess I’m not going to get advice for a while. I’m going to be screwed for another five years, right? Why not just offer the different options out there and make it- If I was a new advisor starting today, like an AUM models, a bit challenging to start from scratch. It really is. That’s true. I would argue, and again, this is a theory here. I would be loved to hear from someone who’s actually done it, but I would argue that starting with a flat fee practice, you could probably scale faster and build those relationships faster. But as you said, we have to provide ongoing value.

So that puts the onus back in the advisor. Are you touching base with your clients every month? What value add are you giving them? Are you giving them bits of advice, drip campaigns? And let’s face it, whether it’s AssetMap or a number of other tech providers, there’s a lot of things we can do on a pretty automated basis now. It’s funny you say this because I’m thinking back to what Becky said, and I love the fact that they were talking about how they’re investing in their culture, in their training, in practice management, in technology. They’re arguably doing it faster than we see in the States because in some arguments, they don’t have the legacy infrastructure that they have to unwind, right?

They’re basically saying, okay, what worked in the United States and what’s worked in the UK and what’s worked elsewhere? Let’s adopt that and let’s do it fast and let’s not mess around because it’s always, it’s a question of survival, I think. And because I think they’re closer to being scrappier, they’re willing to just go for it. And I think that’s an exciting thing. And everyone who’s listening to this should really be thinking about what can I learn from that experience to kind of challenge and create urgency around examining my practice and making sure that I’m running this as efficiently as possible. 0 and basically be able to do a good amount of advice direct to consumer for virtually three, $4 a month.

And the other thing is really an important aspect to this, it’s not gonna be long. I looked it up. There’s over 4,000 some CFPs in South Africa, a massive number of CFPs relative to the market potential, okay? Even more than the States. That means fundamentally as borders come down, you will start seeing as a financial advisor, pressure from lower cost environments for your clients to get advice. They will be able to get advice as they already are from India, from China, as long as we can get over the language barrier. Maybe we don’t need to, if we’re so used to Zoom and chat. I think financial advisors will see a lot of disruption here.

So this is not something to rest your laurels on. Challenge what your model is, be clear about it. And of course know their ideal persona and how you’re gonna charge for it. I think you made an excellent point when we were chatting off camera, so to speak, about how because of this change, it’s feasible that an advisor from South Africa could actually take one of my clients in the United States and give them the advice that they need. Last time I checked, financial advice doesn’t know geography, doesn’t care so much, right? Yeah, there are differences between different countries when you get in the weeds, but general financial planning is pretty universal, I would argue.

And if an advisor in South Africa, a CFP, can meet with one of my clients, get along with them and do it at a cheaper price, right? I don’t know, that’s not disruption. I don’t know what is. So I better offer some of these same things so I can retain my business, grow my business, things of that nature. I just thought of an idea. I mean, we have advisors using Asimap in every time zone right now in the planet, right? That’s awesome. Isn’t that cool? Yeah, I didn’t say that to impress you. It is cool though. But the reason I was thinking about it is, theoretically, you could have a multi currency, which we do, multi-language, fully collaborative platform for advisors to live literally anywhere in the world at their cost structure where they are, in any tax jurisdiction, collaborate on a client, give literally 24 hour phone support because you’ve got every single time zone covered, literally scale out advice everywhere, human tech enabled.

This isn’t today, this is today. So I don’t say this to scare you. I say this to inspire everybody, to rethink what’s going on and how they’re going to attack this going forward. Let’s tell everybody our takeaways from this because this is gonna be really important. How do you put this into action, Derek? Well, leading with advice is not location dependent, as I just said, right? So you really could be replaced by an advisor or somebody else. What’s the message in there? Take Becky’s advice and start looking at how you can serve maybe a different demographic or serve your current demographic a different or better way, right?

There are different models. And as I’ve alluded to before, AUM isn’t dead. I don’t think it’s ever gonna die, but I think we need to offer other revenue models, other price models for our customers. They’re just, that’s just what they want, right? You know, like sometimes I want to pay for something annually. Sometimes I want to pay it monthly. I don’t know, but let the customer choose. So I think we really have to be careful with that and add those things versus just saying, nope, you have to do it this way or I can’t help you. Well, that doesn’t help the advisor a whole lot, potentially.

And then upskill yourself. I think the non-technical piece here is that leading with advice is happening, folks. Adam and I have been beating this drum for a while. And you’ve got one of the largest companies in South Africa heading this charge up full steam where they’re rolling this out, this whole mentality about leading with advice first and being client-centric, holistic, getting your CFP. This is happening. So pay attention to that. You know, if you’re gonna just be a registered rep for the rest of your days, I think your days are gonna be more of a struggle the longer that you go. Adam, what were your takeaways?

What are some things you’d like to share with our- I love what you said. There’s a couple of things I would add to it. And I really think it comes down to transparency with our own clients. Nothing stops us right now from asking our clients how they would like to fairly compensate you. And I think you might learn something if you ask them. What would be the model that works for you? I think a lot of clients don’t know how they are actually compensating their advisor. And when they find out they are, we’ll call them surprised. Because that’s typically not always itemized on their statement next to their performance.

And as the markets tend to have their fund gyrations over the last six months, it might become more obvious. So the question is, what are we gonna do to create alignment and transparency? And I think nothing stops us from asking. Now your current infrastructure, depending upon your broker, may not permit or allow you to, it’s time to start banging the drum for them and making sure that they can also serve you and serve the market as you wanna grow your business going forward. The second thing I wanna throw out there is that the diversity on your team or in your ear, and I say in your ear, we’re giving you an opportunity to hear from somebody outside of your normal jurisdiction.

Diversity is critical for the next decade. And I say that because innovation and eventually evolution is really unlikely to come from where change is not critical. And when you’re making money and things are good and you got the time back and you’re golfing plenty or you’re spending your time with your kids and you’re traveling, you got enough money, your 401k is growing, as an advisor, those are the best times. Well, we’re gonna see some interesting times going forward, as we all know, we tell our clients, it’s not always a positive market. It’s not always a positive environment for where we are. So the key is to listen to what’s working elsewhere and take something from it.

Grab new perspectives, new eyes will bring those opportunities. And I think it’s really important for us to bring the next generation that looks more like our potential clients of the future on our team. That means gender diversity, it means ethnic diversity, and it certainly means perspective diversity so that you’re making sure you’re paying attention to where the market is moving, not just listening to the same old people all the time. That’s hopefully my takeaway. We’re not the same old people, are we, Adam? Are we the same? We’re asking people to not listen to the same old people. So we’re young, we’re vibrant, we’re different, right?

Like, yeah, we’re cool. And even if we’re not, we really will pretend to be. So we hope that you’ll play along with us and laugh to yourself wherever you are right now. Maybe not out loud, people will look at you and think you’re funny. Let’s jump to our community questions so we can wrap this up. What’s the question that you got here from the community? Well, I found this really interesting and actually ties into your just last comments there about not just resting on your laurels and, you know, paying attention to what’s going on. So this comes from Shannon in Atlanta. So thank you, Shannon.

She says, there’s all this talk about work-life balance and how important it is for advisors to have it. But she’s asking, how do I find balance when I’m growing my practice so it feels like it’s dominating my life? So this hits near and dear to my heart, Adam, because I retooled my business starting back in 2013 because I was way out of balance. I was unhealthy, I was overweight, I was stressed, I wasn’t happy, all of those things. And it reminds me even for that, like all the crap I had to do to grow my practice. I don’t know if either one of us is experts.

We could definitely share our experiences on how we handled it. But I think we actually should interview someone specifically that has done research around this. I could go on and on. So Shannon, I almost wanna do a full episode on this for you just to answer it a bit more because it really is an important question. My thing always has been as advisors, we talk with some very personal private matters and very important matters with our clients, very important life events and so forth. So shouldn’t we as advisors be a great shining example of what’s possible in life to help our clients? And if we’re out of balance and working 60 hours a week and are more focused on the Rolex than quality of life, I don’t know if that’s a great example for our clients.

Anyways, give me your two seconds thoughts on it. And I think we’ll do a whole episode on this. Yeah, no, I’d love to, but we’ve been playing with this and we’ve both gotten coaching about it and we have lots of peers and we’ve been blessed to have also failed. Blessed because we’ve gotten the feedback from our families and our health that said, no, you don’t have balance here, stop, pay attention. And those are always the moments when life lessons teach you stuff and sometimes they’re very painful. But hopefully you turn them into lessons. I think the bottom line here is intentionality of your purpose, finding that, but remembering we’re also entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs don’t go home nine to five.

m. But the point is that it’s an interesting challenge. I look forward to having this discussion with you because it’s really something we can all do to get not only wealthier, but healthier. And that’s really gonna be the key to a sustainable practice long-term that’s gonna serve our bigger ideals is to get closer to balance. And I think it’s an aspirational thing, not always a perfection of standing on the ball perfectly. So with that, my friend, it’s always a pleasure. I will remind everybody to please subscribe, tell your friends about this podcast, let them know that there are people that want to mentor and or help them with no asset management fee included.

We don’t even actually have advertising. We’re doing this because we love it. And hopefully there’s a message in there for you. Any last thoughts, Derek? No, I think this is great. Just let us know your thoughts. Thanks for listening. You guys are awesome. We are recording this right before the 4th of July. So even though you’ll hear this later, a happy 4th to everybody. And Adam, man, it’s been a pleasure as always. Love chatting with you. And this is the first episode that Adam and I have recorded in the same time zone. I’ll let that just hang there a little bit because you guys may not know what that means.

It’s true. I don’t know what it’s gonna mean for us, but I hope it’s good things. You’re making me work later is what you’re doing. That’s right. He’s working past five o’clock, everybody. All right, have a great one. We’ll see you at the next episode. Thank you for listening to Rethink, the financial advisor podcast with Holt and Notman. Be sure to subscribe now and join the ongoing conversation. The information covered and posted represents the views and opinions of the guest and does not necessarily represent the views or opinions of AssetMap or Connector. The content has been made available for informational and educational purposes only.